Morinaga: It is certainly inverted. In the promotional visual, I put one calla lily of the valley in the vase, and I felt that the single flower really stood out. As Kuma-san said, there is an inverted relationship in arranging flowers in a product made of flowers.

Kuma: The fact that the user of Tsumika can decide the shape as if they were a creator may be what makes it different from existing product designs. The relationship between designer and user is also reversed. Some people may think of Lego when they think of stacking things, but the freedom of Tsumika is different from that of Lego. Lego is made of bricks that are steadily stacked one by one, and its design reflects European culture. On the other hand, Tsumika is curved and can suddenly change into an unexpected shape. It has a "jump of form" that Lego does not have. In a sense, this is the freedom of a country made of wood. Wood is very light and can be shaped in any way. It can also be rotated, so it has a different freedom from the freedom that bricks have. The Exchange, which I built in Sydney, Australia, is also designed with wood wrapped around it, but it is a building, so it does not actually move around. But Tsumika actually moves. This is where the frustration of not being able to do something in architecture is resolved (laughs).

Morinaga: I see (laughs).

Kuma: Products like flower vases have a completely different appeal to them than architecture. Architecture can be very restrictive in a sense, with clients and various other parties involved, but a product can be created if Morinaga and I both have a dream.

Morinaga: I think that the fact that the shape of "Tsumibana" changes completely depending on who makes it is a very strong feature. When I first made flower resin, I was very attracted to the fact that by using real flowers, each piece can be made differently. There are many "floral patterns" in fashion, but not one of ANEVER 's floral patterns is the same. This property of the method of trapping dried flowers in resin and the structure of "Tsumibana" that Kuma-san created are quite compatible in that it is a product that will reach many people, but each one can be treated as a unique item.

Kuma: That's right. The petal-shaped acrylic plate rotates freely, and the shape of the vase changes infinitely depending on who uses it. I think that the property that each and every living thing has is special among all the other properties. Usually, polymer structures are repeated, but living things are always different from one another. I feel that this specialness is captured in "Tsumibana."

Morinaga: That's interesting.

Kuma: I discovered the joy of creating things myself while stacking blocks. I'm so particular about building blocks that I've actually designed some of them myself, and the fact that I was able to combine flowers with them was all thanks to Morinaga-san's work with ANEVER. I never thought of trapping flowers in acrylic. I thought it would be nice to express the combination of these two things with the word "Tsumika".

Morinaga: Thank you for the nice name. Actually, I really like building blocks too.

Kuma: Is that so? Apparently architect Frank Lloyd Wright also played with building blocks as a child. There's a famous story that Wright's mother got hold of building blocks made by German educator Froebel and let him play with them, which is what led him to become an architect. Those building blocks don't just have squares, they also have circles and triangles. That's the combination that Froebel thought would best stimulate a child's brain. I also think there's something special about playing with building blocks with your hands that stimulates the human brain.

Morinaga: I found this very interesting, as I had a child last year. He just turned one year old and can now stack a few building blocks. I think Tsumika would be a lot of fun for children to put together. I feel like it would help them make new discoveries.

Kuma: Childhood experiences are important. I'm originally from Yokohama, but I grew up at the foot of a rural area rich in nature. At the time, I didn't think there was any significance to that, but later, when I thought about what kind of space I wanted to create as an architect, I began to think that my goal was to return to my childhood. As I grew older, I finally began to understand the value of the space and era in which I once lived. Where did you grow up, Morinaga-san?

Morinaga: I'm from Kunitachi City in Tokyo. I grew up in the green area of Yaho, and was absorbed in collecting insects and making specimens. For example, I can catch cabbage white butterflies because of their relationship to flowers. Humans and butterflies see different worlds, and cabbage white butterflies see in the ultraviolet range. That's why they can recognize the parts of flowers that have nectar. Taking that into consideration, I would predict, "This insect will be attracted to this flower," and catch them. My villa in Karuizawa was right in the mountains, so it was fun to go there.

Morinaga: It's an honor. In my case, people tend to think that I make bold clothes, but I also value details and delicacy. Boldness and delicacy are contradictory, but both are important. The idea of trapping flowers in acrylic was actually inspired by the movie "Jurassic Park" that I saw in junior high school. The story of dinosaurs being restored from the blood of mosquitoes trapped in tree sap was quite shocking at the time. So, after I started making clothes, I wondered if I could trap flowers in acrylic to make buttons, just like mosquitoes were trapped in tree sap. I consulted with a button shop in Nara that has been in business for over 100 years, and the buttons I made through trial and error were the beginning of the Flower Resin series. Perhaps in 100 years, a world without flowers will arrive, and the remaining acrylic of the flower resin will melt for some reason, and the flowers that emerge from it will regenerate flowers... I seriously imagine this, and this product is filled with such romance. It all started with making buttons, so I asked the button maker if he could do this or that, and we expanded into hangers and accessories, and now we've completed a flower vase.

Kuma-san: It's amazing that a button shop has been in business for over 100 years! Just now, when I heard about buttons, I thought of shell buttons. It's so strange that buttons are made from shells. I remember being very surprised when I first realized it. I thought that clothes were industrial products because they are mass-produced, but I thought it was really dreamy that something that actually falls into the sea, like shells, can be made into parts and be in a place that the human body can actually touch. That's another way of saying that there is a living creature on your chest. When I heard that a button shop is making them now, I felt there was some kind of connection.

Morinaga: Yes, that button shop in Nara also produces shell buttons. Shell buttons look the same on the front, but the backs are all different. Each button is unique.

Morinaga: When we think of "space" or "architecture," we tend to think of it in terms of a large scale, but having this discussion today made me realize that "space" is everywhere. The shoes that Kuma-san is working on, the headpiece that Kuma-san made for ANREALAGE 21SS "HOME," and this "Tsumibana" are all examples of this, aren't they? The "space" in relation to the "flowers" is the flower vase, and of course, clothes are also "spaces" for people to live in. If you shift your perspective from one that has a subject and one that has a space to another, the world seems to change again.

Kuma: Yes, when we hear the word "architecture," we imagine a large object, but in reality, "architecture" exists in all sizes. For example, the use of the word "architecture" in the computer world shows that the concept of "architecture" can be on any scale. If architects themselves could delve further into that, it would be possible to convey even more that "architecture" is an interesting thing. "Tsumika" is one attempt in that sense. It's a challenge.


(July 29, 2022 Interview at Kengo Kuma's Tokyo office / Photographer: Yuri Iwatsuki)

Kunihiko Morinaga

Born in Kunitachi, Tokyo in 1980. Graduated from Waseda University's School of Social Sciences. Started making clothes while attending university, and launched his brand "ANREALAGE" in 2003. Won the Avant-Garde Grand Prize at GEN ART 2005. Participated in the Tokyo Collection that same year, and made his Paris Collection debut in SS15. Won the Newcomer Award and Shiseido Encouragement Award at the 29th Mainichi Fashion Awards in 2011. In AW 2020, he became the first Japanese designer to collaborate with FENDI. In March 2021, he launched a new brand, ANEVER, in collaboration with Onward Kashiyama.